pyro
New Member
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Post by pyro on Oct 3, 2012 20:55:25 GMT -6
I think it's safe to say we're all pretty familiar with the revival routine. Leader kicks it, their spirit goes to Starclan, Starclan gives them a band-aid, a little foreshadowing, then boots them back to their formerly mangled body.
What bothers me about this routine is many things the second half of the routine: everyone's reactions. Whenever someone's with a leader who dies it seems like they're just kind of...'Oh no they've died. Better sit here and roll the dice until they get back from wherever.' Not just in the books but roleplays as well. I'm aware that leaders have nine lives, but does having nine lives really negate the severity of death? It's finality, yes, but not the...deathness.
Consider this: A leader dies nine times.
A leader dies nine freaking times. Nine. Not one. Nine. Those deaths are usually (not always) painful. Deathblow in a battle. Sickness. Etc. They're deaths.
So uh. Just out of curiosity, why do I always see cats acting all 'whatevs' about it? Yes there's usually some shock and 'omfgwutdoido' but things usually return to the norm relatively quickly. Even if you have a cat who believes wholeheartedly in all this, I'd still expect them to be...a little weirded out.
I mean, there's concern for the number of lives a leader has left, but not so much for the number of times they've died. It's 'how many get-outa-jails do ya got left' not 'holy concerned voices batman, how do you stay sane after dying eight times?'
In a fight I can see having a sort of 'moving on' attitude because the fight's not going to stop for little ol' Zombiestar, but what about afterwards when there's time to reflect? When there's time to consider the fact that you know what dying feels like and you're going to have do it again, and again, and again.
THOUGHTS ON THE MATTER. How do your cats react to this situation? How do you see other cats besides your own reacting to this? Is numbness to be expected? Is apathy appropriate?
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Post by mistytail on Oct 3, 2012 21:21:14 GMT -6
You know, I actually never thought about this before, but you make a really good point. The only cat in the books we saw horror expressed at their death that was not their last was Tigerstar, and that's because he lost all nine lives one right after the other. But you're right, it is really weird that there's such a numbness to a leader's death. Especially considering most leaders keep the number of lives they have left a secret, the Clan never really knows how many lives they have left. Every death could be their last. Wow. Really great post. Four for you, Glen Pyro. You go, Glen Pyro.
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Post by cloudbat on Oct 4, 2012 9:10:49 GMT -6
My god that face. Pfffffheeheeheheheeh.
Welp, seeing as I'm partially responsible for this anyway, mine is that yeah, it's generally kept secret. As for how the leaders themselves feel about dying...well. A certain MeadowClan leader thinks it sucks, and is actually a bit dsiturbed when he sees another outline of himself take its place in StarClan. There's also the whole buisness of coming back which for him was pretty much delivered with almost blackmail. NOW. I don't know if StarClan can actually take away a leader's lives - that's a topic for another thread - but assuming they could, I think there's almost a warning to use your lives wisely.
On others' reactions...I think their close friends and family might get worried, but overall the Clan would be all 'Well uh. Yeah. That was unfortunate. Er. Moving on now.' I mean. These are fighting cats, death is not exactly uncommon, also by means of natural disaster. It's...probably slightly worrying to them but not a huge issue of concern.
I have no idea if anything I just said made any sense. I hope so.
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Post by celestialsquared on Oct 4, 2012 10:45:59 GMT -6
I think the "They'll be back" factor makes the death of leaders so uninteresting. Unless the cats didn't know their leader is on their last life. Then there's some genuine shock. And on the point Misty made, the cats act like they don't realize leaders have nine lives, but rather an infinite amount.
I mean I would be weirded out. But these cats deal with death on a near daily basis, so I guess it's not a big deal.
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Post by Lady Ten on Oct 4, 2012 19:42:40 GMT -6
I don't think I've ever seen anyone bring up this point before. Kudos. Also thank you for sharing the lovely drawing. What bothers me about this routine is many things the second half of the routine: everyone's reactions. Whenever someone's with a leader who dies it seems like they're just kind of...'Oh no they've died. Better sit here and roll the dice until they get back from wherever.' Not just in the books but roleplays as well. I don't know about the roleplays (I can't recall reading a roleplay where a leader goes through a death, come to think of it) but what leader deaths are shows "on screen", as it were, in the books? Some of Bluestar's deaths, and Firestar's deaths, right? Can anyone get us quotes for those? Firestar's not so much since those are mostly written from his own point of view, but any scenes showing character reactions to the death would be useful here. I'd like to examine them more closely. Then again, maybe that would belong in a canon thread. Speaking strictly in Fanon terms, does anyone have more examples of specific leader deaths? To Cloud: was that on FoF, and does that mean that foffer leaders have nine lives? The causes of death may be painful, but it might be easier to accept the dying itself within the culture. It's got to help that it's expected and they've got StarClan there with them. I don't have any personal experience with this, but the experience of dying (which may be distinct from the experience of what causes of dying) might not be that unpleasant. I dunno where we would look for more data on this -- near death experiences? Anyway, if this is within a universe where it's specifically established just what death feels like, and it's described as disorienting/stressful, then you certainly have a point. |
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leah
Young Warrior
Awesomesauce%\1\%
Posts: 209
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Post by leah on Oct 4, 2012 20:11:31 GMT -6
Okay, so I found a Roleplay on the official Forum.
Yes, I have sunk that low. I think my not-yet-removed appendix is stuck in my throat after reading it.
But there's this "Iskraclan" (Apparently "Iskra" means Spark) and Iskrastar loses a life.
and then...
So the cats didn't even acknowledge that he lost a life let alone got hurt until /after/ he got up.
This "Leafstorm" asked him if he lost a life but that's really it.
And I can't supply any more of it since the rp was seriously /that bad/.
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Post by celestialsquared on Oct 5, 2012 7:07:52 GMT -6
Okay, so I found a Roleplay on the official Forum. Yes, I have sunk that low. I think my not-yet-removed appendix is stuck in my throat after reading it. But there's this "Iskraclan" (Apparently "Iskra" means Spark) and Iskrastar loses a life. and then... So the cats didn't even acknowledge that he lost a life let alone got hurt until /after/ he got up. This "Leafstorm" asked him if he lost a life but that's really it. And I can't supply any more of it since the rp was seriously /that bad/. It's really sad over there. I usually just go over there to make name rating boards for the giggles. |
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Post by cloudbat on Oct 5, 2012 10:00:06 GMT -6
I poked around on the official forum once. I think part of my brain leaked out my ears.
And yes Ten, it was on FoF and I swear to God if you start complaining about StarClan I will get the potato gun. >:I
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Post by Lady Ten on Oct 5, 2012 13:54:22 GMT -6
oh gosh the official forum. No. And yes Ten, it was on FoF and I swear to God if you start complaining about StarClan I will get the potato gun. >:I I wasn't planning on it, but now I want to. |
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Post by mistytail on Oct 5, 2012 13:58:40 GMT -6
The official forum more like "please god put some chlorine in the gene pool plEASE,,,"
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leah
Young Warrior
Awesomesauce%\1\%
Posts: 209
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Post by leah on Oct 5, 2012 14:59:17 GMT -6
The romance writing is worse than Twilight, that's how freaking awful it is.
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Post by cloudbat on Oct 5, 2012 18:29:56 GMT -6
Chlorine. Hee.
There is no romance in that writing, it's the shrieks of words pressed together to form sentences against their will.
Don't go there, Ten. The reason I refuse to argue about this is that I've written fics that explore concepts yet you refuse to read them. So. What can I say?
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Post by Lady Ten on Oct 5, 2012 19:53:39 GMT -6
Wait, what? Was there something I was expected to have read?
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Post by cloudbat on Oct 6, 2012 17:08:15 GMT -6
Not expected, but I have two fics I've written exploring FoF's StarClan and you refused to read one of them when it was finished for reasons involving various things bothering you for whatever reason. The other I've written since then.
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