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Post by Lady Ten on Sept 29, 2012 15:23:39 GMT -6
The Erins could have used a little help in developing their characters. Do you think the folk who've gathered at Fourtrees could do them any better?
At the moment, I'm still contemplating where to create the board, but here's the basic idea: under Warriors Redesign, there will be a thread for claiming characters. Post there with the name of the character you want, then make a thread for their new bio and begin rewriting an alternate, fleshed-out version based on the canon cat. Names, pelt colors, histories, and personalities are all subject to change, based on what you judge to be a better choice. They can hold as close of a resemblance or be as loosely based on canon as you'd like, just so long as it makes more sense than what Erin Hunter wrote. Basically, it's as if Erin Hunter just entered the fandom and we started holding her to the same standards as we expect from each other.
Bluestar, for example, could be rewritten as a tough, noble, and fair-minded leader superior to her canon portrayal, or she might be a desperate hack who drags a kittypet into the Clan for much darker reasons. Spottedleaf might be legitimately wise beyond her years (as she was rumored but never shown to be in the books), perhaps carrying the burden of more knowledge of each cat's fate than she can bring herself to share, or she might be a chanting, hallucinating druggie with no real idea what she's doing who's been stringing the Clan along this whole time as a hollow excuse for a spiritual leader.
What do y'all think? Would you design a cat for this? Would you prefer to start with the characters who appear in Bluestar's Prophecy, or at the start of the first series with Into the Wild?
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drheiter
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Post by drheiter on Sept 29, 2012 15:36:18 GMT -6
Oh my God, this is an amazing idea, I'd love to participate if I can Also, in my opinion, it would be best to start with Into The Wild, since everybody has read it (assuming they're reading the books in order), and it might encourage quieter/new members to join in since it's a book where everyone would feel comfortable. That's just my idea, however c:
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Post by mistytail on Sept 29, 2012 17:57:24 GMT -6
That sounds really cool! I can't help but think it might be a little complicated that way though - perhaps people could start threads for the characters that need the most work and everyone chips in with their thoughts?
It could work for maybe a group activity too - get two or three teams to work independently on each character rewrite and then we all present them and maybe vote on whose is the objective best, the furthest from their canon portrayal, and the most realistic to feral cat behavior? Or something?
Regardless if any of those top two things are good ideas or not, this sounds really great and I'd love to participate!
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leah
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Post by leah on Sept 29, 2012 18:26:51 GMT -6
I was actually thinking of doing something similar for a while but I delayed on bringing it up because I haven't had enough time to even start it. I was thinking that redoing all the names and designs would be the best thing to do first. Runningwind, Runningnose, Yellowfang, Whiteclaw, Blackfoot, Tallstar... they all need either new names or new pelts. I was going to go in order of release rather than chronogical order, and that's because the older names are lot more tradtional and there aren't a whole lot that need changing, so it would be a good warm-up to start with Into the Wild and go by release date. I wasn't going to do the personalities because, I'll be honest here, I'm still not that great when it comes to writing characters. Despite that, I think this would be a great idea. We could also do something similar to the Bluestar Diaries where we slowly go through the books and fix problems with continuity, genetics, basic logic, etc. Because, seriously, that was one of the best things I've ever read.
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vbfdoee
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Post by vbfdoee on Sept 29, 2012 19:16:32 GMT -6
I made a post. My internet ate it. Long story short:
Pure white cats with black feet don't happen. Blackfoot needs an overhaul.
It says in Bluestar's Prophecy that Rosetail literally has a pink tail. The problem here should be obvious.
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Post by Lady Ten on Sept 29, 2012 20:59:11 GMT -6
I'd prefer we keep one thread per character, but everyone should be allowed to contribute their comments and ideas as we work on them together. The person who "claims" the character will just be the one who writes the initial draft and has the responsibility of adding to and editing the bio in accordance with discussion and suggestions. If there's an artistic disagreement on a change to be made, the character's guardian will make the call (unless it's a serious disagreement, in which case we'll sort that out). Does that sound good to everyone? This method gives the first person to claim a character some power, but we're a homogenous enough group that I think we can be pretty democratic about this.
Rosetail needs an overhaul, yeah. I'm thinking all the ThunderClan cats should be familiar with her and each have a unique personal connection to her, so that, oh I don't know, it might be a real big deal to everyone when she dies. Almost like she actually existed in their lives.
Whoever picks them can make their own choices on this, but here are some of my other ideas: Yellowfang would keep her distinctive name for recognition, but she'd get a new pelt. Blackfoot, on the other hand, I would make a pure white cat and bestow with a new name. It also would work to make him solid black and keep the name Blackfoot, but I'd want to fight the ingrained canon image of him having white markings everywhere but his paws. Also, black cats being evil is such a cliche. Still, either would work.
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IE
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Post by IE on Sept 30, 2012 9:04:44 GMT -6
I think the entire idea is very nice, especially the thought of having one thread for each character, so all the other members than the one who claimed said character could both have a look at the wip'ing that the op is doing and have a say every once in a while. This sounds like a fun and good idea. I'd prefer to start with Bluestar's Prophecy, but it might be more clever to start with Into the Wild.
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Rolo
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Post by Rolo on Sept 30, 2012 9:29:31 GMT -6
I'm up for helping out :3 I remember when you mentioned the original project and the discussions we had then.
The only issue I can see with your system is that the plotline is at risk of seriously changing if characters are allowed to change too much. Therefore, could I suggest that each individual's character's /behaviour/ should remain similar to the books, but that their motivations and personality may be altered. Keeping the histories (for example, Bluestar's kits with Oakheart) similar would also be an idea, so people can write subsequent books once Into the Wild is finished without them becoming different stories. If you're REWRITING and not doing an alternative universe, the books should be recognisable as offshoots of the original.
And Into the Wild is the most sensible option. Quite seriously, I think you'd be putting yourself at a disadvantage if you chose anything outside the first series, which are the most read books, because you'll have less collaborators.
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Post by Grey on Sept 30, 2012 9:54:19 GMT -6
This is true. Also, I suspect there will be troubles if this is begun from the in-story chronological starting point (or thereabouts) because not all characters from those times are known, and if biographies are going to be written tracing the cats' ancestry, I think everyone's going to find that the gene pool gets very, very shallow after about three generations of cats.
By avoiding any incest pairings (as Erin Hunter tried its very best to do), the number of possible pairings is limited considerably and by about the third generation, everyone is related somehow. I suspect this is why Erin Hunter writes in new characters (especially she-cats, such as Millie or Daisy) - to increase the number of future characters without squicking anyone.
I have spent a while considering different ways this could impact the culture of the cats (and a heap of other stuff as well), and sometimes I entertain the idea that this is partially why Bluestar encouraged Rusty to join them. Not just because they needed another set of paws, but because she was thinking ahead in terms of genetic variation in the clan without inter-clan issues.
Of course, this has never been verified in canon (and I never expect it to be either), but that's essentially my theory for it.
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Rolo
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Post by Rolo on Sept 30, 2012 10:01:11 GMT -6
I like this idea. Also, I think that it's actually... a realistic thing that the clans have been interbreeding so much. It's why, I believe, there are so many cats with abnormalities from clowders of feral cats. I also find it hilarious that the one thing that the clans hate so much, inter-clan relationships and new joiners, are exactly what keeps them healthy XD
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Post by Lady Ten on Oct 2, 2012 11:06:10 GMT -6
Grey, that is a brilliant idea.
Okay, I've created a new board for this project. Currently, it's a sub-board under Fandom Talk (although it can be moved anywhere upon request -- I wasn't really sure where to put it). Soon I'll be making a thread there where people can claim characters and we can get started.
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vbfdoee
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Post by vbfdoee on Oct 5, 2012 18:38:17 GMT -6
Should we make a thread about reworking the plot? Character redesign is sorely needed and all, but the plot could use some work, too.
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leah
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Post by leah on Oct 5, 2012 19:02:27 GMT -6
I agree with vbfdoee. I mean, if this is about Redesigning, I think we should not only redesign the plot but basically the writing (no more overuse of the word suddenly! xD )
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Post by Lady Ten on Oct 5, 2012 19:41:55 GMT -6
We're not rewriting the books just yet. We can, eventually, but we've got a long way to go before that's an option. First we've got to draw up some fleshed-out characters who could stand on their own four paws as real "people". In order to do this, we'll have to collaborate across characters as well, creating and expanding upon relationships between them in order to establish all the ways they've influenced each other's lives. This is where we make up for the sense of community that's really lacking in the books. We can't amend the plot until we have a better sense of who these characters are and what they would do. However, in order to develop them, we may need to figure out which parts of canon we want to keep as basis. That can be discussed on individual character threads or on this thread here. A plot thread might be necessary, but only for deciding on certain elements crucial to how we proceed with characterization. I don't want to start rewriting the full plot until we've got all the characters nailed down.
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bbun
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Post by bbun on Oct 14, 2012 11:21:54 GMT -6
One question: Rusty still joins clans, and eventually becomes leader and yada yada yada right?
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