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Post by Lady Ten on Sept 20, 2012 13:30:08 GMT -6
When I read the first series, StarClan was just a mysterious body of omniscient ancestors, and that was the extent of the extent of the Warriors world's religious/spiritual system as I understood it. Then, suddenly Cinderheart. Apparently reincarnation, too, is a possibility in this world, which makes for a complicated issue considering there's an afterlife as well (two afterlives, to be precise). Cinderheart appears to be a unique case, suggesting that a ticket to StarClan is the usual route. Are there any other instances of reincarnated cats? I'm assuming this is another area of the books Erin hasn't put much thought into, but I'm curious how this works nonetheless. Here are my questions: - What is the criteria for deciding a cat is worthy of reincarnation? Consider also: are there StarClan cats who fit that criteria but were not reincarnated?
- Are reincarnated cats always reincarnated into their home Clan?
- How does the issue of reincarnation come up? That is, is it a choice put on the table each time a cat dies, or does a cat have to be explicitly nominated?
- How much does a reincarnated cat remember of the past life?
- When a reincarnated cat dies and goes to StarClan, which form will it take?
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leah
Young Warrior
Awesomesauce%\1\%
Posts: 209
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Post by leah on Sept 26, 2012 16:46:21 GMT -6
So, according to THIS, "When Cinderheart goes to StarClan, she will either go as Cinderheart, or as two separate cats, Cinderheart and Cinderpelt". Now, I think I'd rather go with the former, just because it makes a little bit more sense. Also according to that, "Cinderheart will find out about her past life as Cinderpelt." it says she will "find out", not "remember", which means she is told by someone, maybe Starclan or somebody else, that she was once Cinderpelt, but she doesn't actually remember. So yeah, that sort-of answers the last two questions. Sort of.
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Post by Lady Ten on Sept 27, 2012 22:24:40 GMT -6
So, according to THIS, "When Cinderheart goes to StarClan, she will either go as Cinderheart, or as two separate cats, Cinderheart and Cinderpelt". I think this quote says so much about the Erins as writers. First, wow, just wow. Second, there is no expressing my amusement. Third, not only have they given real, serious consideration to the idea that a reincarnated cat would enter StarClan as two separate cats, but they also just plain have not decided on how this question would be resolved like I dunno, maybe this would happen, or maybe something completely different, it's not like we're the authors or anything. In addition to that, according to Leah's analysis, it sounds like Cinderheart doesn't have any memories of being Cinderpelt... which makes me wonder, what's the point of her being Cinderpelt at all? In effect, all this does so far is delete Cinderpelt from StarClan.
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Post by mistytail on Sept 28, 2012 8:30:44 GMT -6
According to the Warriors Wiki, which may be inaccurate but I never read Omen of the Stars, Cinderheart eventually does remember being Cinderpelt, but then chooses to be Cinderheart and Cinderpelt's spirit leaves her. It's... confusing. I think it was something that was done without a lot of thought being put into it. (Hey, look, a short description of the whole series!)
I do know the prologue of Twilight, with Cinderpelt begging StarClan not to take her because she still had things to do for her Clan, was written because Vicky Holmes was diagnosed with "something very serious" (she never explains what, but she's fine now) and channeled her fear of dying into that. It's also likely the ending for Cinderpelt may have just been a part of that. That doesn't excuse the whole reincarnation thing turning out so weird and confusing, but it makes me look at how it came to be in a different way.
(I'd cite the video where she says this but I'm on a flash-lacking mobile device so instead, just go to warriorcats.com and go to "videos" in extras. It's the one where she answers your questions.)
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Post by Lady Ten on Sept 28, 2012 19:52:17 GMT -6
According to the Warriors Wiki, which may be inaccurate but I never read Omen of the Stars, Cinderheart eventually does remember being Cinderpelt, but then chooses to be Cinderheart and Cinderpelt's spirit leaves her. It's... confusing. hm. This would imply that Cinderheart has a distinct consciousness and a separate spirit. So, the whole time, -pelt was just sort of... overshadowing her? Floating over her shoulder? Experiencing her life and her sensations simultaneously, but being allowed no input? That sounds pretty creepy for everyone involved. That's interesting about Cinderpelt's death. Found the video. Gotta love a cheesy intro. Anyway, thanks for leading me to this. Just going to leave some of my favorite quotes here. "I don't have to practice on real cats." "Every word is perfect." "Warriors goes on and on." Out of all the Erins, Vicky Holmes has the best quotes, I'm telling you.
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Post by mistytail on Sept 28, 2012 20:26:41 GMT -6
Vicky Holmes is one of those people I really, really want to hate, but for some reason I just can't.
And yeah, like I said, the reincarnation thing was really confusing. It was described a lot by Jaypaw saying that Cinderheart couldn't know? So I guess Cinderpelt was locked away in Cinderheart's head or whatever.
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Post by Grey on Sept 30, 2012 6:22:35 GMT -6
My favourite so far from Vicky Holmes is:
"She thinks the best book she has worked on is Bluestar's Prophecy."
Given that Cloud is posting the Bluestar Diaries at the moment, that seems beautifully relevant, ehehehehe.
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Post by cloudbat on Sept 30, 2012 10:54:23 GMT -6
Given that Cloud thinks the best book is whichever one Firestar died in, she is merely amused.
Also, just...what is the whole point of it anyway? I get that Cinderpelt wanted another chance at life, but she can't be the only one. What about every other cat that died unfairly? Don't they get a chance too?
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Post by Grey on Sept 30, 2012 10:57:34 GMT -6
I don't think it's so much about the fact she died. More so, I think it's because she lived her (reasonably short) life with a crippling disability and was forced to watch everyone else become warriors while she fussed around with plants. It's a pity vote from Starclan, I think.
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Post by cloudbat on Sept 30, 2012 11:05:36 GMT -6
Pity is fine, but why the heck couldn't she just derp around in StarClan? Cats still hunt, fight, etc., there. Even if there are fleas. Somehow.
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Post by celestialsquared on Sept 30, 2012 14:47:02 GMT -6
Pity is fine, but why the heck couldn't she just derp around in StarClan? Cats still hunt, fight, etc., there. Even if there are fleas. Somehow. Don't you know? There are always special exceptions if you're a Thunderclan cat and then there's extra special exceptions if you're good friends with the main characters. You've got connections.
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Post by cloudbat on Oct 1, 2012 10:19:40 GMT -6
Of course, Celestial, how could I be forgetting. Forgive my momentous lapse in judgment.
*gags* ThunderClan, I loathe you so.
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Post by Lady Ten on Oct 2, 2012 14:42:26 GMT -6
I don't think it's so much about the fact she died. More so, I think it's because she lived her (reasonably short) life with a crippling disability and was forced to watch everyone else become warriors while she fussed around with plants. It's a pity vote from Starclan, I think. Yeah no. This is full of problems.* First of all, this explanation presumes that there is little value in fussing around with plants, which I think Grey will attest is not the case. Or to put that another way, it presumes that there is less value in plant-fussing than there is in becoming a warrior. This we know is inaccurate because there is one one (and a half, ish) medicine cat per standard Clan, and those healing skills and knowledge are a vital part of the Clan's strength and survival. Most troubling is the presumption that you can't live a "full" or "real" life with a disability, and that is just disgusting. From this perspective, being able to personally kill things with your own claws is more important than forming relationships with your Clanmates and doing all the other things that make life meaningful (aka things that Cinderpelt was able to do and in fact did). Considering that being a medicine cat and being killed are not exceptionally unusual occurrences in this culture, it seems StarClan's decision was in part based on the fact that she had a disability (and therefore her first life didn't count, or some crap, because she wasn't fully able-bodied) and the implication(?) that she would have rather things had gone differently. But hold up, the latter occurs in everybody's life, so that doesn't single her out as special. If they went by any of this reasoning -- if they felt pity on her because of her leg and decided to give her a "do-over" -- then they have an imbecilic perspective on the importance of living a "normal" life. * I don't mean you were wrong to put that out there, Grey -- it sounds like an accurate estimate -- but rather, it is wrong of StarClan (and the authors and fans) to think that way. Pity is fine, but why the heck couldn't she just derp around in StarClan? Cats still hunt, fight, etc., there. Even if there are fleas. Somehow. Don't you know? There are always special exceptions if you're a Thunderclan cat and then there's extra special exceptions if you're good friends with the main characters. You've got connections. Social capital theory in action.
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Post by cloudbat on Oct 2, 2012 17:15:17 GMT -6
^ that.
Also the last bit is hilarious. XD
Although I think she wanted to be a warrior? Idk.
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Post by mistytail on Oct 2, 2012 19:55:54 GMT -6
Ten, I would be very much honored if I could kiss you for that post.
Unless that's creepy, in which case a simple hearty handshake will suffice.
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