Mimi
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Post by Mimi on Oct 14, 2012 1:37:50 GMT -6
This is perfect. As I said - if the elders just talk about wolves, then there's reason to use wolf- as a prefix. If wolves are a significant part of clan-lore or belief system, then you wouldn't. I misunderstood what you put; this makes sense.
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saphirabunny
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Post by saphirabunny on Oct 14, 2012 2:09:22 GMT -6
I'm aware of that. What I don't understand is why you capitalised it. Would I forget which country I mentioned? Unlikely. Would I understand 'English' if it were written without full caps? Highly likely. Italics emphasise, capitals shout. I apologize. I didn't mean for it to be take like that. I have always used caps for emphasis. It's just a habit of mine. I personally didn't think of it as shouting unless it's more than one word. If it's because elders are talking about that one time such-and-such saw a wolf, I don't think it qualifies as sacred in any way. If wolves are part of the clan's significant history or religious beliefs, I think wolf- wouldn't be used. That's all I was saying. Ok. Yeah in that case you'd be right.
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Post by Grey on Oct 14, 2012 2:26:11 GMT -6
It's cool. I hadn't made myself clear.
I'm an English Lit. student; I over-think the implications of everything by habit, ehehe. I was just really puzzled about why we were shouting 'English' all of a sudden. I thought I must have missed a key point in the discussion somehow.
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Post by Shellwhisker on Oct 23, 2012 0:43:21 GMT -6
But why are lion- and tiger- used then? Their used in the books and out is based on an understanding that those were the ancient clans. The story of the big cats clans is a myth. There's nothing sacred or significant about TigerClan or LionClan; it's just a piece of folklore to tell to little kits. Moon-, however, holds real significance because is directly connected the the clan's religious beliefs and is only used for things revolving around StarClan (Moonstone/Moonpool). Therefore, it shouldn't be used. If they are seen as just myths and aren't held sacred or significant, then why would Onestar and Firestar have been so opposed to Tigerstar using "TigerClan" as a name for his false power? Honestly, I don't see the point you're attempting to make. I agree that Moon-, and Sun- shouldn't be used, because they are sacred things that alter the lives of the cats, but using that argument, Lion, Tiger, and Leopard shouldn't be used either. Just because these clans are based on myth doesn't make them any less important. Clan Cats truly believe that those ancients are their ancestors and that their skills and even some of their coat patterns, come from those great clans. They are significant to the cats in that light, and they should be held just as sacred as Moon- or Sun- . So, Lion-, Tiger-, and Leopard- should not be used.
To answer the OP, however, I believe that Wolf- can be used if the clans live in an area where it's not completely unheard of for them to encounter wolves here and there. For instance, let's say that a pack of wolves migrated across the clan cat's territories once and they banded all 4 clans together to drive them away from settling anywhere near their territory and a great many warriors died. The tragedy would be significant enough that the stories would be told for generations, and it's likely that some Wolf- kits were born to celebrate the ending of that terrible time. These clan cats would be happy that the wolves were gone, but would also grudgingly admire/respect/fear the wolves and their strength/ferocity/ability to terrorize the clans. It really depends on the situation though. I don't agree to using the wolf- prefix in a place where it's completely random and the setting isn't in a place where wolves live. I don't agree in using prefixes that don't fit the setting. Prefixes are first dictated by what the she-cat knows, and then by what the kitten looks like. If she lives in a place where she's never even heard of wolves, or scented them, [like England] Wolf- would not be a plausible prefix. But I digress. To answer the second half of the OP, the largest predator I could see the clan's coexisting harmoniously with [without mass-murder happening to the clan] would probably be a stoat. Maybe. I'd say fox, but they usually just chase those out of the territory without any questions asked. Stoats are bad too, though, since I can see the cats having problems with stoats wanting to make meals out of kits. In that case, I could see the cats being the larger predators who prey on the stoats as much as the stoats do on their young.
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Post by Grey on Oct 23, 2012 1:58:27 GMT -6
You'll have to forgive me, but I don't remember this at all. I remember Tallstar (current leader of Windclan at the time) and Firestar banding together "like a lion" against the "tiger" that was aggressing everyone. Do you have a particular quote to remind me of this situation?
I could understand Windclan and Thunderclan being opposed to Tigerstar's power, but I can't imagine why they'd be opposed to the name - I mean, it's his name, after all. He was named after a tiger because of the physical resemblance there. The only reason I could imagine that the Windclan and Thunderclan representatives wouldn't like the term 'Tigerclan' is because it sounds incredibly arrogant and god-complex-ish.
After all, the clans' names come from their founders. As a result, those prefixes are considered somewhat sacred (or should be, in any case). For Tigerstar to then form a new clan and name it after himself, that would then make tiger- sacred and elevate Tigerstar himself to "legendary/mythical" status (as well as scuppering the whole 'four clans' business).
I think that's more what's going on there. I could be wrong, but that makes more sense than getting snotty because he's quoting an old story.
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Post by Shellwhisker on Oct 23, 2012 3:56:04 GMT -6
"Leopardstar has already agreed to join RiverClan with ShadowClan," Tigerstar told them. "We shall be joint leaders of a greater clan, to be known as TigerClan." Joint leaders? Firestar didn't believe that for a moment. Tigerstar would never share his leadership with any cat. Now Tigerstar turned to Firestar and Tallstar. "We have come to invite you to join the new Clan," he meowed, his amber eyes glittering. "Let us rule the forest together in friendship and peace." Before he had finished speaking, Tallstar tepped forward, his fur bristling aggressively. But it was not to Tigerstar that he spoke; instead he addressed all the cats in the clearing below. "TigerClan was the name of one of the great Clans of ancient times." Tallstar's voice rang out as strong and clear as if he were still a young cat. "Tigerstar has no right to use it now. Nor does he have the right to change the number of Clans in the forest. We have lived as four Clans for innumerable seasons, following the warrior code laid down for us by StarClan. To throw aside our ancient ways would bring disaster." Turning to Tigerstar, he hissed. "I'll die before I join my clan to yours!" -The Darkest Hour, Chapter 12, pg. 136-137.
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Post by celestialsquared on Oct 23, 2012 17:12:36 GMT -6
"Leopardstar has already agreed to join RiverClan with ShadowClan," Tigerstar told them. "We shall be joint leaders of a greater clan, to be known as TigerClan." Joint leaders? Firestar didn't believe that for a moment. Tigerstar would never share his leadership with any cat. Now Tigerstar turned to Firestar and Tallstar. "We have come to invite you to join the new Clan," he meowed, his amber eyes glittering. "Let us rule the forest together in friendship and peace." Before he had finished speaking, Tallstar tepped forward, his fur bristling aggressively. But it was not to Tigerstar that he spoke; instead he addressed all the cats in the clearing below. "TigerClan was the name of one of the great Clans of ancient times." Tallstar's voice rang out as strong and clear as if he were still a young cat. "Tigerstar has no right to use it now. Nor does he have the right to change the number of Clans in the forest. We have lived as four Clans for innumerable seasons, following the warrior code laid down for us by StarClan. To throw aside our ancient ways would bring disaster." Turning to Tigerstar, he hissed. "I'll die before I join my clan to yours!" -The Darkest Hour, Chapter 12, pg. 136-137. Something tells me that Tallstar is simply just fond of the story. Afterall, TigerClan, LionClan, and LeopardClan were big, powerful cats that every young kit looked up to. They were legendary heroes. They're not so significant that they can't name other cats for looking like a big cat. Kinda like how people name their kids after Abraham and John, but never after Jesus (Well, not counting the Spanish translation). And as Grey said before, Tigerstar had every right to name his clan TigerClan because he was naming it after himself. The fact that the name is the same as the name from a mythical clan is either coincidence or the authors are trying to make a point.
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