Post by Rolo on Aug 28, 2012 17:30:58 GMT -6
This is an article I wrote in 2009 on the issue of the Dark Forest, which previously attracted a lot of discussion, so I thought I'd post it here. Most of it is unchanged.
Now, before I begin, I must make you aware that I have not read beyond the half-way through the second series. For this reason, this page of opinions may feature inaccuracies and assumptions that I have made about the Dark Forest that could be untrue. After all, I've never read about the Dark Forest in context, and so I have a limited view on the concept. However, I have gained knowledge of the place from various sources, so I should be ok XD.
I should hope that all of you should help develop my understanding of the Dark Forest. I know I am perhaps not justified to comment on the concept, knowing what little I do, but I shall anyway XD Please note that this was written in half-jest (in reply to a discussion) and it is meant to be humourous.
The Dark Forest, also known as the Place of No Stars, is a place that is shrouded in mystery. Very few people know the conditions for getting in there and warriors don't seem to know much, if anything at all, about it. However, we do know, for certain, that the Dark Forest is a place where bad cats go to suffer for their 'sins'.
However, since I first time I heard about the concept and how it was applied, I have felt the Dark Forest has very little point and planning behind it. Why? It just struck me as a pretty crappy place to put evil cats in. I shall explain by walking you through the concepts that it consists of.
Sunset, prologue
Firstly, the Dark Forest is dark. And it is a forest. With fungus. No faults there. That's all we know about it settings-wise, really. Makes for interesting reading, eh?
Sunset, prologue
We also are told that one of the main aspects of the Dark Forest is that there is no stimulation. You cannot do anything you used to do in life (hunt, eat, socialise). This leads one to believe that the Dark forest is a form of torment. You were bad in life and now you don't get the pleasure life brings. Fair stuff, it's understandable. Yet, from here on, things begin to get a little contradictory.
We are told that you are alone in the dark forest and you cannot contact/meet anyone else. Perhaps the Erins were going down a 'road of eternal regret' theme, where cats are left alone to think of how horrific their crimes were, that they're so evil they can never talk to anyone again. A type of hellish torment, perhaps? But... this falls flat.
You can't see anyone in the dark Forest... except when you meet up with your equally-evil son or if you're evil/talented enough to get past the enforced separation. Yes, Tigerclaw has been said to have met both Hawkfrost and Darkstripe on seperate occations. And yes, the reasons I cited were reasons the Erins gave for their meeting up.
Ask Erin Hunter - www.warriorcats.com/warriorshell.html
SO, you're given an afterlife of solitude... unless you're clever or your kin is evil too? How... horrorsome.
Next concept. There is a divide between StarClan and the Dark Forest in the shape of mist, which, according to Warriors Wiki, can only be crossed by StarClan. So, Starclan cats can go to taunt doomed cats or something then? Or perhaps offer redemption, who knows? But... hang on? A StarClan cat can get lost in the Dark Forest if they aren't careful? So, let's get this straight. You can be either cursed to a life of torment by being evil... or by living a life full of goodness and having no sense of direction? XD Do the Erins realise how blooming ridiculous that is?
And lastly... the Dark Forest is a place for bad cats. We're pretty much told this over and over and we're never given a reason as to why. Perhaps it is simply a place for bad cats, like a holding den, keeping the world and StarClan safe from their corruption, as they are unworthy of the fantasticness of Starclan. But... sorry -_- That just fails even more.
Lets see... if you're going to have a place of downright evilness, full of devious, scheming cats, what is your main priority? Keeping them from doing more harm and making them powerless, that's what. But they're not. Tigerstar constantly haunts cats (or scares the crap out of Brambleclaw) in their dreams, meddling in their training and generally doing what he did in life. In fact, Tigerstar has even physically hurt a cat, Lionpaw, from the Dark Forest.
Eclipse page 292-5, hardcover
[Lionpaw] turned to leave. He didn't need the guidance of this dead cat!
A roar split the air. Lionpaw spun around. Too late: Claws pierced his shoulders as Tigerstar knocked him to the ground. Lionpaw struggled, but Tigerstar held him down, his massive shoulders rippling with the effort.
Tigerstar has an influence over life even in death and he gets to talk in cats in dreams and sometimes, seemingly, in real life. Going back to the torment idea... this makes his torment even less. He's not thinking of his past evil deeds and regretting them, he's planning new ones and carrying them out. How is this a good form of 'containment'?
So, let us look at all the points. Tigerstar isn't being contained in any shape or form, and it doesn't seem as if the other cats in the Dark Forest would be if they plotted as much as Tigerstar. He walks in living cat's dreams and meddles with their lives. Tigerstar is also not exactly being 'tormented' through loneliness, we've seen him with both his friends and living cats. Even if he's been starved of prey (does he even need to eat? XD) and stimulation, I'm sure he's not desperately unhappy as he gets to plot and carry out his plots as often as he likes. Even worse, Tigerstar sometimes shows more power than StarClan. StarClan gives prophecies occasionally and sometimes gives warnings or whatever's through dreams... Tigerstar can talk freely to cats and get them to do his will. How does that work? Shouldn't Starclan be more powerful?
So, to summarise;
Torment? - Apart from experiencing some feelings of slight loneliness and hunger, not really. The forced loneliness doesn't even work anyway as it can be defeated by scheming. And, of course, your family can come visit you so you'll live ;P Oh and, if you're clever enough, there is a chance you may even get to terrorise cats you hate in dreams, which will probably override your slight discomfort.
Just for evil cats? - Nope, because a StarClan cat can get lost there and effectively join their ranks.
Containment? - Nope, they have power over life still.
So, what is the point of the Dark Forest? I would love to hear your ideas. Perhaps you have thought of another point which could rubbish all my critisism and actually make the Dark Forest somewhat terrifying. Feel free to agree or disagree with me. I will be genuinely fastinated, whatever you say.
I'd also be interested in any of your general theories about the point, story-wise, of the Dark Forest. Is there a reason why there are so many exploitable holes in the realm? Discuss.
My greatest thanks to Ten and Thistle on the original discussion I posted this on for all the book quotes. This post would've been an evidence-less discussion without ya ;P.
Now, before I begin, I must make you aware that I have not read beyond the half-way through the second series. For this reason, this page of opinions may feature inaccuracies and assumptions that I have made about the Dark Forest that could be untrue. After all, I've never read about the Dark Forest in context, and so I have a limited view on the concept. However, I have gained knowledge of the place from various sources, so I should be ok XD.
I should hope that all of you should help develop my understanding of the Dark Forest. I know I am perhaps not justified to comment on the concept, knowing what little I do, but I shall anyway XD Please note that this was written in half-jest (in reply to a discussion) and it is meant to be humourous.
The Dark Forest, also known as the Place of No Stars, is a place that is shrouded in mystery. Very few people know the conditions for getting in there and warriors don't seem to know much, if anything at all, about it. However, we do know, for certain, that the Dark Forest is a place where bad cats go to suffer for their 'sins'.
However, since I first time I heard about the concept and how it was applied, I have felt the Dark Forest has very little point and planning behind it. Why? It just struck me as a pretty crappy place to put evil cats in. I shall explain by walking you through the concepts that it consists of.
Sunset, prologue
No moon or stars shone in the sky above his head but tree trunks thick with fungus shed an eerie glow on the bare earth beneath his paws
Firstly, the Dark Forest is dark. And it is a forest. With fungus. No faults there. That's all we know about it settings-wise, really. Makes for interesting reading, eh?
Sunset, prologue
The huge tom opened his jaws to draw in air, though he did not expect to taste the scent of prey. He knew that the twitching of the ferns meant nothing, and the flickering scraps of darkness would vanish like mist if he pounced on them.
We also are told that one of the main aspects of the Dark Forest is that there is no stimulation. You cannot do anything you used to do in life (hunt, eat, socialise). This leads one to believe that the Dark forest is a form of torment. You were bad in life and now you don't get the pleasure life brings. Fair stuff, it's understandable. Yet, from here on, things begin to get a little contradictory.
We are told that you are alone in the dark forest and you cannot contact/meet anyone else. Perhaps the Erins were going down a 'road of eternal regret' theme, where cats are left alone to think of how horrific their crimes were, that they're so evil they can never talk to anyone again. A type of hellish torment, perhaps? But... this falls flat.
You can't see anyone in the dark Forest... except when you meet up with your equally-evil son or if you're evil/talented enough to get past the enforced separation. Yes, Tigerclaw has been said to have met both Hawkfrost and Darkstripe on seperate occations. And yes, the reasons I cited were reasons the Erins gave for their meeting up.
Ask Erin Hunter - www.warriorcats.com/warriorshell.html
"Tigerclaw and Hawkfrost are allowed to walk together as they are father and son, and because Tigerstar always challenges the rules!"
SO, you're given an afterlife of solitude... unless you're clever or your kin is evil too? How... horrorsome.
Next concept. There is a divide between StarClan and the Dark Forest in the shape of mist, which, according to Warriors Wiki, can only be crossed by StarClan. So, Starclan cats can go to taunt doomed cats or something then? Or perhaps offer redemption, who knows? But... hang on? A StarClan cat can get lost in the Dark Forest if they aren't careful? So, let's get this straight. You can be either cursed to a life of torment by being evil... or by living a life full of goodness and having no sense of direction? XD Do the Erins realise how blooming ridiculous that is?
And lastly... the Dark Forest is a place for bad cats. We're pretty much told this over and over and we're never given a reason as to why. Perhaps it is simply a place for bad cats, like a holding den, keeping the world and StarClan safe from their corruption, as they are unworthy of the fantasticness of Starclan. But... sorry -_- That just fails even more.
Lets see... if you're going to have a place of downright evilness, full of devious, scheming cats, what is your main priority? Keeping them from doing more harm and making them powerless, that's what. But they're not. Tigerstar constantly haunts cats (or scares the crap out of Brambleclaw) in their dreams, meddling in their training and generally doing what he did in life. In fact, Tigerstar has even physically hurt a cat, Lionpaw, from the Dark Forest.
Eclipse page 292-5, hardcover
[Lionpaw] turned to leave. He didn't need the guidance of this dead cat!
A roar split the air. Lionpaw spun around. Too late: Claws pierced his shoulders as Tigerstar knocked him to the ground. Lionpaw struggled, but Tigerstar held him down, his massive shoulders rippling with the effort.
"I've not finished with you yet." With a final hiss, Tigerstar vanished.
Lionpaw was trembling with fury. Why was Tigerstar so determined to ignore the prophecy?
"Lionpaw!" Ashfur was calling him from the bushes ahead.
He hurried to catch up, his shoulders stinging where Tigerstar's claws hand dug in. He glanced behind him. Was Tigerstar still watching? What did the dark warrior want from him, if he didn't want the power of the stars?
Lionpaw was trembling with fury. Why was Tigerstar so determined to ignore the prophecy?
"Lionpaw!" Ashfur was calling him from the bushes ahead.
He hurried to catch up, his shoulders stinging where Tigerstar's claws hand dug in. He glanced behind him. Was Tigerstar still watching? What did the dark warrior want from him, if he didn't want the power of the stars?
Tigerstar has an influence over life even in death and he gets to talk in cats in dreams and sometimes, seemingly, in real life. Going back to the torment idea... this makes his torment even less. He's not thinking of his past evil deeds and regretting them, he's planning new ones and carrying them out. How is this a good form of 'containment'?
So, let us look at all the points. Tigerstar isn't being contained in any shape or form, and it doesn't seem as if the other cats in the Dark Forest would be if they plotted as much as Tigerstar. He walks in living cat's dreams and meddles with their lives. Tigerstar is also not exactly being 'tormented' through loneliness, we've seen him with both his friends and living cats. Even if he's been starved of prey (does he even need to eat? XD) and stimulation, I'm sure he's not desperately unhappy as he gets to plot and carry out his plots as often as he likes. Even worse, Tigerstar sometimes shows more power than StarClan. StarClan gives prophecies occasionally and sometimes gives warnings or whatever's through dreams... Tigerstar can talk freely to cats and get them to do his will. How does that work? Shouldn't Starclan be more powerful?
So, to summarise;
Torment? - Apart from experiencing some feelings of slight loneliness and hunger, not really. The forced loneliness doesn't even work anyway as it can be defeated by scheming. And, of course, your family can come visit you so you'll live ;P Oh and, if you're clever enough, there is a chance you may even get to terrorise cats you hate in dreams, which will probably override your slight discomfort.
Just for evil cats? - Nope, because a StarClan cat can get lost there and effectively join their ranks.
Containment? - Nope, they have power over life still.
So, what is the point of the Dark Forest? I would love to hear your ideas. Perhaps you have thought of another point which could rubbish all my critisism and actually make the Dark Forest somewhat terrifying. Feel free to agree or disagree with me. I will be genuinely fastinated, whatever you say.
I'd also be interested in any of your general theories about the point, story-wise, of the Dark Forest. Is there a reason why there are so many exploitable holes in the realm? Discuss.
My greatest thanks to Ten and Thistle on the original discussion I posted this on for all the book quotes. This post would've been an evidence-less discussion without ya ;P.
