Mary Sues

[vbfdoee]

Everyone knows the term, but everyone's ideas of what makes a character a Mary Sue are different.

Some use it to mean "female character I dislike", some use it to mean "implausible original character", some use it to mean "stand-in for the author", and that's only scratching the surface of its many permutations. But here's what I think a Mary Sue is: a character who's obviously the writer's favorite. An author's pet, if you will.

I don't like most Mary Sue litmus tests because they tend to to list potential symptoms rather than identify real diagnostic criteria. Stargleam of the infamous fanfiction isn't a Mary Sue because she has purple fur, rainbow eyes, and a long line of lovers trailing behind her like children behind the Pied Piper. Those are merely symptoms of the disease. When a Mary Sue appears, it's because the story exists as an excuse to write about the character, rather than the character existing for the story.

This isn't to disparage character-driven writing. However, there's a difference between a character who's absolutely vital to the story and a Mary Sue. A narrative bends to the latter's convenience like a willow tree to a hurricane, while setting implacable obstacles in the face of the former. Make no mistake about angst, for though a Mary Sue may have endured unspeakable hardships in the past, none of these problems exist in the present as anything more than fodder for glistening tears and pity parties.

This hasn't been a critique of the concept of a Mary Sue so much as it has been a definition of terms, though I have read some excellent essays in that vein; I haven't even mentioned the subtle misogyny of such a negative archetype being female by default.

[mistytail]

There's definitely an element of misogyny to the term "Mary Sue" being exclusive to women. Here, let me give you a good example:

"So, there’s this girl. She’s tragically orphaned and richer than anyone on the planet. Every guy she meets falls in love with her, but in between torrid romances she rejects them all because she dedicated to what is Pure and Good. She has genius level intellect, Olympic-athelete level athletic ability and incredible good looks. She is consumed by terrible angst, but this only makes guys want her more. She has no superhuman abilities, yet she is more competent than her superhuman friends and defeats superhumans with ease. She has unshakably loyal friends and allies, despite the fact she treats them pretty badly. They fear and respect her, and defer to her orders. Everyone is obsessed with her, even her enemies are attracted to her. She can plan ahead for anything and she’s generally right with any conclusion she makes. People who defy her are inevitably wrong.

God, what a Mary Sue.

I just described Batman."

-adventuresofcomicbookgirl.tumblr.com

[celestialsquared]

Misty, you bring a point I noticed a while ago. A lot of the characters in popular media such as in classic comics and cartoons, when thoroughly analyzed, are Mary Sues/Gary Stus. I mean seriously, nearly every classic comic book hero is handsome/beautiful, had a tragic past, nearly always wins, and endure little character development. So apparently there is a way for characters to be Mary Sues and still be well liked.

So at what point does a Mary Sue become intolerable?

[Lady Ten]

Nov 25, 2012 17:55:34 GMT -6 vbfdoee said:

I don't like most Mary Sue litmus tests because they tend to to list potential symptoms rather than identify real diagnostic criteria.

Roger. That's why I don't like people defining/accusing mary sewage based on a tragic backstory or unusual hair. Those things themselves aren't necessarily bad (although often cliche, they can be done well).

When a Mary Sue appears, it's because the story exists as an excuse to write about the character, rather than the character existing for the story.

Now that's not necessarily bad either -- some stories that just follow a few moments in a character's life can make for something interesting -- but I think I see what you meant to say. With most underdeveloped character-centric stories, a lot of writers probably set out to basically just put on a presentation of just how awesome this one character is. But I'm still not certain that's the defining characteristic (ex. a fanfiction about how Cheif Beifong is awesome wouldn't necessarily be terrible because Cheif Beifong actually is awesome).

Good example with Batman there. Celestial's right that this covers a lot of popular characters, but to single out one in particular-- the Doctor might as well be a Gary Stu. He's powerful, intelligent, impresses all, pretty much always wins, etc. and yet he's more loveable than annoying. Realizing this is what got me thinking about characterization and what divides a supposed cool character from a legitimately cool character.

The difference between a charming hero (using that as a nongendered term here) and an overpowered nuisance will be subjective, always, but here's one take on what tips the balance: the author is afraid to let the character get hurt. Granted, I'm using "hurt" here in a very particular sense. Mary sues (that is, actual underdeveloped problem clusters) regularly have abusive/dead parents or a history of being reviled by all and picked on until their knees bleed. The idea is that all of this is supposed to be unfair, and the reader is supposed to feel bad for the sue (and thus bond with/begin to like the character). The author will want to railroad reader emotions into having a strong affinity for this character (but that's getting onto another topic).

So, a Mary Sue might get hurt physically, might even be tortured and die at some point, but throughout it all will never be in the wrong. Mary Sues don't lose arguments, unless somebody else cheated. If a Mary Sue ever hurts anyone else, it's because they deserved it. If a Mary Sue ever breaks the rules, it's because either the rules are too strict/immoral/stupid or the character is cool enough to be above them. If a Mary Sue is ever punished, the punishment is unfair. If a Mary Sue ever gets mad and snaps at someone, it's because the other person was pushing them too far and should have known better and nobody has that much patience anyway, excuses, excuses, excuses.

Sure, Mary Sues might have "flaws", like being afraid of heights, or being "unpopular", but their real problem is that the writer is afraid to let them go. Like an overprotective parent, the writer is afraid to let the character become its own person. And thus the favoritism: the Mary Sue never does anything that the author or the narration ever presents as wrong.

[vbfdoee]

/applauds

Ten, you should have written the OP. I bow down beneath your skill at writing about fiction with a critical/analytical eye.

[Lady Ten]

aw shucks ma'am naw I'm glad you started the thread.

-fixes a typo-