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Post by Lady Ten on Oct 8, 2012 16:52:49 GMT -6
After solid brown cats, tortoiseshell coats are one of the most common pelt types that I see misused and misunderstood. That's not to say that torties are rare like the brown self/solid. Torties are a very realistic choice, highly recommended. However, that's only if you understand what a tortie can look like. So, without further ado, let's review the possible characteristics of a tortoiseshell cat: Dilute or Non-Dilute.By default, a tortie cat is going to be ginger and black. The dilute version of this would be cream and gray. You can think of a dilute tortie as a "paler" version of a regular tortie. Tabby or Non-Tabby.Technically speaking, any cat with ginger coloring is by necessity a tabby* and there are no "solid"/self ginger cats. This applies to torties as well. However, the tabby markings are more noticeable in some torties than others. Torties with a noticeable tabby overlay can be called "torbies" or "patched tabbies". White Markings or No White Markings.This is pretty straight-forward. A tortie with any of the above characteristics can have some white markings, or not. Other Possibilities.The examples of alternate tortoiseshell forms given under this section are less likely among a feral population. If you are designing or evaluating a Clanborn character, refer to the characteristics given above. Among specially-bred torties, you may find cats who are chocolate and ginger (dilute version: lilac and cream) or "milk chocolate" and cream (dilute version: fawn and cream). It is very unlikely that a pelt of variegated brown color would spontaneously occur in a feral population. None of this "her dappled coat gleaming with a hundred shades of amber and brown," Erin Hunter. Sorry to burst your Spottedleaf bubble. Additional Tortie Resources.Messybeast has an interesting little chart showing which parent combinations will result in torties, and if so, what the brothers of those kits would look like. Check it out under "Breeding Tortoiseshells". * See the tabby thread for more information on ginger tabbies.
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vbfdoee
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Post by vbfdoee on Oct 8, 2012 17:26:24 GMT -6
Ah, you linked to my thread. I feel curiously flattered.
So, as I understand it, a tortoiseshell is the result of a cat with two X chromosomes that each have different copies of the X-linked red gene. The non-red color is the underlying pelt color that is masked by the orange in certain areas.
Given this, wouldn't it be possible for brown and ginger tortoiseshells to occur in a random-bred population? I can make a Punnet square. So, assuming that both parents carry the gene for brown fur, and the father has the X-linked red gene that covers up the underlying coloration:
XO_____Y Xo XOXo XoY Xo XOXo XoY
(the underscores don't signify anything, I just couldn't get the formatting to work)
So any female kits would be tortoiseshell (XOXo), and their underlying fur color would be brown, so they would be brown tortoiseshells. Sorry if I'm not wording this well.
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Post by Lady Ten on Oct 8, 2012 17:31:46 GMT -6
That depends on the availability of brown in the first place. The "brown" in a "brown" tabby, as I think I've mentioned elsewhere, is technically a black tabby, going by the genetics of the thing. Actual brown cats don't happen much.
That said, yes, it is possible.
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leah
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Post by leah on Oct 8, 2012 20:54:45 GMT -6
Thank you for this. Torties are definetly my favorite. :3 I should mention. I mean, you probably (obviously) know this, but I want to mention it anyway.
Those "Torties with white markings" are called Calicos in America. I don't know if that term is used elsewhere, as the books just describe them as "Tortoiseshell-and-white". I wonder where the term Calico came from anyway. Hmm...
TO GOOGLE!
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Post by mistytail on Oct 8, 2012 20:58:12 GMT -6
Would it be appropriate to ask for pictures? I'm having a hard time processing what some of these are supposed to look like. I'm dumb. D8
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Post by Lady Ten on Oct 8, 2012 22:23:10 GMT -6
Sure! Messybeast has a few, but here are some more. This is a normal tortie with white markings. Black, ginger, plus white. This tortie (with white) has very prominent tabby markings. When a tortie (with white) is dilute, it looks like this. Grey, cream, plus white. This tortie does not have white markings. Just black and ginger. Here's an example of a Reese's cat chocolate tortie. This is the closest thing I could find to what Spottedleaf looks like. It's a Chocolate-Tortoiseshell Longhair Kashmir, which the source describes as a "byproduct of selective breeding for Himalayans".
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Post by Grey on Oct 9, 2012 1:08:51 GMT -6
I feel like I may have contributed to this misconception a bit. More than once, I have described tortoiseshell cats as having brown markings as well as or in place of ginger ones. There's a reason for this, and it's because I have a fair amount of trouble distinguishing what is ginger, and what is not. Some of these images I would describe as brown and black as much as I would ginger and black. That's just my own ignorance, I suppose.
As well as that, I also kind of don't care. I try to be as accurate as possible with Ailuronymy, and where possible, I describe prefixes with as many details as I can - but people also have to make up their own minds. If I've written that the prefix represents a brown and black tortoiseshell, that's just how I've thought it looked. It really comes down to "is my blue the same as your blue".
So while I totally support this post and I think it's a good and necessary one, I'm not about to get particularly energised about the difference between a ginger and black tortoiseshell and a brown and black tortoiseshell. People see things differently, and while it's not technically accurate, I can deal with that break in reality much easier than I can with a badly constructed name. It's weird the way the mind works - that, and I think I lean slightly in favour of creative license.
I know there's a poem about a calico cat and gingham dog.
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Post by mistytail on Oct 9, 2012 9:06:53 GMT -6
Ah, thank you, Ten! Reese's kitty is adorable oh my goodness. I didn't know that was a thing. That is so cute.
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Post by railroadcrossing on Apr 7, 2013 19:49:04 GMT -6
Calico and gingham are both types of fabric pattern, which is what both are named for hehe.
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leah
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Post by leah on Apr 8, 2013 21:02:14 GMT -6
oh, thanks for that! Yeah, I guess I said I was going to Google the origin of "Calico" and I never did. :I I typed that message 6 months ago... hehe.
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Post by railroadcrossing on Apr 9, 2013 18:47:02 GMT -6
Aha yeah, I only knew Calico was a fabric because we recently read a book mentioning it in English. Same with Gingham.
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Post by KelIndick on Oct 3, 2019 11:45:37 GMT -6
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