|
|
Post by Lady Ten on Sept 29, 2012 12:31:17 GMT -6
I cannot recall anyone ever using this suffix for a character who is not a medicine cat. That being said, it's not the designated medicine cat suffix like "star" is for leaders. Therefore, it cannot be used just to say "this cat is a medicine cat". Unless, that is, you're using a modified Clan system wherein "leaf" is the designated medicine cat suffix, but in that case, you really ought to notify people of this when you're posting a name on a board for a rating. So, if leaf doesn't mean medicine cat, what does it mean? Some have suggested it means a really good medicine cat. This is less preposterous that simply indicating rank, and suggests a parallel to claw/fang and the like for warriors, so let's give this some consideration. In the standard Clan system, there is one medicine cat, perhaps with one apprentice. Out of a Clan of at least a dozen(+) cats, only one or two cats will serve this post at a time, whereas pretty much everyone else is a warrior, ex-warrior, or eventual warrior. Thus, when it comes to healing skills, the position of medicine cat can afford to be discriminatory. The Clan will only want "the best of the best" as its medicine cats. So, ideally, the medicine cat of a Clan will be the most medically talented cat in the Clan. If the very best that the Clan has to offer is still pretty bad, that's terrible. One would hope, then, in a competent and self-respecting Clan, there would be at least one cat with a better-than-chance success rate in healing. If the medicine cat isn't "good", in that sense, then they should really get a new one. If the current cat is decent and knows all the proper intel, fine, this one can stay. If the current cat is extra good, even better. What constitutes exceptionally good healing skills, though, is difficult to determine. I say this because it's not like hunting, where you can hunt extra good and bring home more prey. A medicine cat, in theory, will only have a set number of patients, and cannot do extra healing. The medicine cat can either make the problems go away, or not. Hopefully, as addressed, the medicine cat will have more wills than nots. Granted, there will always be some unsolvable cases and some lives will be lost. In general, the Clan wants a medicine cat who's able to solve the problem most of the time, and this is what we would classify as a decent medicine cat. But how does one go beyond that? All knowledge being equal, you don't, unless the medicine cats of other Clans are really prone to hosing it up and getting their herbs confused or something (ample grounds for being fired). But what if not all knowledge is equal? Perhaps one Clan has a technological advantage over the others, aware of additional uses for herbs, or perhaps this medicine cat is more innovative than previous medicine cats, discovering new procedures or means of diagnosis. The problem is that here, you're no longer in the realm of simple skills -- you're in the realm of plot points and stories. You'd have to determine which herbs or tactics your medicine cat knows better than all the other medicine cats, and then you'd have to explain this story in justification for this suffix, and then you'd have to enforce this intel inequality if you ever enter an open roleplay with said medicine cat, or you'd have to cultivate the roleplay as such if it was all part of a forum. Eventually, even if the Clan tried to protect its advantage, I'm thinking the other medicine cats would learn the special tricks as well, especially if these medicine cats all follow the canon tradition of sharing herbs and knowledge with each other across borders. The medicine cat who first came up with the idea or pioneered a new procedure might still get a commemorative suffix, but that's still story-based, and all in all, this is sounding a little advanced for feline healers. Maybe the criteria for an extra-good medicine cat needn't be this complicated, but when I try to plot out how exactly that would function, this is where I arrive. Perhaps, alternatively, an elder medicine cat might bestow the suffix "leaf" on an apprentice who was a quick learner. Thing is, out of the whole Clan, you'd think the medicine cat apprentice would be the quickest leaf-learner anyway. Note: by the end of writing this, I had used the word medicine cat so often that it was starting to make me think of a flower called the Mexican hat. And now I'm picturing medicine cats as a series of be-whiskered long-stemmed flowers along the side of the road, blowing in the wind. |
|
|
|
Post by celestialsquared on Sept 29, 2012 17:54:30 GMT -6
The Clan will only want "the best of the best" as its medicine cats. So, ideally, the medicine cat of a Clan will be the most medically talented cat in the Clan. Perhaps, alternatively, an elder medicine cat might bestow the suffix "leaf" on an apprentice who was a quick learner. Thing is, out of the whole Clan, you'd think the medicine cat apprentice would be the quickest leaf-learner anyway. These are good points and makes you wonder what the true purpose of -leaf is. Maybe it is used to signify an extensive knowledge of herbs, even among other medicine cats. (especially when it seems medicine cats have a club meeting nearly every month) |
|
|
|
Post by mistytail on Sept 29, 2012 18:03:55 GMT -6
I think it actually is justifiable to have a suffix for being an exceptionally good medicine cat. You have to remember, medicine cats also have to go through basic warrior training too. So they can also have regular warrior suffixes for the skills they present in that. They're more likely to have personality suffixes, considering that's a huge part of being a medicine cat, but I wouldn't think it unusual to name a medicine cat for having good warrior skills either. But, if the cat's strongest suit really is in healing and medicine, then -leaf as a suffix seems acceptable to me.
|
|
vbfdoee
Young Warrior
%\1\%
Posts: 158
|
Post by vbfdoee on Sept 29, 2012 18:56:12 GMT -6
Just because all medicine cats necessarily have to be the most medically skilled cat in their clan doesn't mean that some aren't better at it than others. Bluestar tells Spottedleaf in the prologue of Into The Wild that she's particularly gifted, and in Cats of the Clans it is mentioned that Cinderpelt wasn't a great medicine cat because that wasn't her "destiny" (i.e. she didn't have an aptitude for it and only became a medicine cat because it was her only option other than the elders' den). So I figure that that's the deal with -leaf.
|
|
|
|
Post by Lady Ten on Sept 29, 2012 20:41:31 GMT -6
Right, medicine cats can have any of the same suffixes that warriors can have. They have a lot of options. So why do they need leaf? I'd already presume that any apprentice in training to be a medicine cat would be one with more talents in medicine. Bluestar tells Spottedleaf in the prologue of Into The Wild that she's particularly gifted, and in Cats of the Clans it is mentioned that Cinderpelt wasn't a great medicine cat because that wasn't her "destiny" (i.e. she didn't have an aptitude for it and only became a medicine cat because it was her only option other than the elders' den). That's all informed attributes, though. Beyond because-the-erins-said-so, is there a way for a medicine cat to show exceptional skill? I've thought about the manner of the application of their skills as a possibility -- that is, a cat might make a more soothing and effective medicine cat through personal demeanor and a gift for prayer, but once again that's tripping into other realms and doesn't have much to do with leaves. So if there can be exceptional talents in the area of Clan medicine, what would that look like? |
|
|
|
Post by mistytail on Sept 29, 2012 20:46:29 GMT -6
I would say innovation and intuition with things that are unfamiliar to the Clans. Like, say a medicine cat apprentice suddenly has to care for an injured or sick cat, or a queen delivering her litter, and the main medicine cat isn't there, and they're not trained for that situation just yet. They use whatever herbs and techniques they can think of on the fly and it works and helps the cat in trouble until the regular medicine cat gets back. Or a medicine cat finds a new treatment for the Clan to use; for example, my character Swanpaw experiments with the usage of bee stings to help alleviate pain caused by arthritis in elders. (This is a real technique used today and is shown to be effective, I'm not making up voodoo magic here.) A natural understanding of the body and herbs could be indicative of an exceptional medicine cat rather than one that simply memorizes herbs but gives up when they are stumped. These medicine cats are unlikely to say "They're in StarClan's paws now," and try to find whatever ways they can to save the cat in trouble.
|
|
|
|
Post by Lady Ten on Sept 29, 2012 21:16:09 GMT -6
In a situation the apprentice doesn't feel ready for, they either know the right herbs, or they don't. If they do, good, they stick to their training. If they don't, then going to get the superior would be a better idea, and safer, than simply picking something with uncertainty and offering it up as a possible cure. I'd want Colette to storm in at that moment and gasp and say, "YOU ARE IMPROVISING?" Seriously, why is there not a larger Ratatouille fandom on the internet? There are so many Collette gifs that I want and can't have.
Finding new treatments is something I have covered. The recent intel wouldn't stay limited to one Clan for long, and this is a plot-point explanation, meaning you have a lot of arranging to do whenever you use it and it's not as straight-forward as skill suffixes like claw. It's not really any definite trait you're highlighting so much as an event that happened. On the other hand, if you want to name a medicine cat after a determined personality and a willingness to experiment with random things on other cats' bodies, that's still not "skill with leaves".
|
|
|
|
Post by Grey on Sept 30, 2012 7:29:43 GMT -6
I have seen a fair few non-medicine cat cats with the suffix -leaf, but there's no theme there when it comes to skills or personality or anything.
I get what you're saying, Ten. I disagree, though.
-leaf is not "the" medicine cat suffix. There's nothing for that - most of the time, a medicine cat is not distinguishable by name from any other clan cat. However, some medicine cats are better than others. I really don't think this is debatable. In an ideal world, every medicine cat would be a god and solve every disease with a twitch of their whiskers, but that's not reality. Some medicine cats are better at others, and there's a fair few ways this can happen. As far as I'm concerned, the best medicine cats will always have the following traits:
- an excellent memory (obviously, they have a lot to remember)
- a natural affinity for their work (even from a very young age, their only interest was the study of medicine - maybe even to the detriment of other skills and training)
- a fierce desire to learn and discover (they are always looking for improvement of their craft)
- a level-headed personality (calm and professional).
As you said, there should be no "bad" medicine cats. They do not - or rather, should not - exist. No clan is foolish enough to instate a moron as their medicine cat (discounting canon clans, because seriously, Runningnose). Every medicine cat should be able to learn their stuff, remember their stuff and perform their duty; that goes without saying.
It's just that some cats show a particular zeal and knack for the work. This is not in comparison to the rest of the clan. The cat chosen as medicine cat apprentice will be the most medically-oriented in the clan in comparison to the rest of them. Medicine cats are compared to medicine cats.
You don't compare one cat's hunting skill with another cat's agility; likewise, you compare medical ability to medical ability only.
I believe only between other medicine cats. Medicine cats have their own strange, elite organisation system, and it's largely peaceful and helpful towards one another. Unlike ordinary warriors, medicine cats in canon tend to share their knowledge rather than hoard it - they are trained in the craft of saving lives, after all. If all the medicine cats look at one apprentice and says, "Goodness, this one's good. What a clever cat. Look how he/she listens and learns. Why can't you be like that, you cheeky little apprentice?", then I think it's safe to say all of them would agree on the suffix -leaf for the apprentice in question.
In short, I believe what constitutes the need for a -leaf suffix is an apprentice that shows promise enough for the older medicine cats to respect their abilities from a reasonably young age. Among the medically-oriented, there will always be those that are more 'oriented' than others. That's the way of the world. Many people can draw - and draw well - but when you compare two good drawings, one tends to be better in the eyes of critics.
I believe the reason for the word '-leaf' itself is simply because medicine cats predominantly use leaves in their craft. 'Leaf' as a word doesn't have connotations of this kind of behaviour; the meaning is given to the word, rather than the other way around.
|
|
Mimi
New Member
%\1\%
Posts: 17
|
Post by Mimi on Oct 12, 2012 1:46:18 GMT -6
I went and read the Wikipedia article on what a leaf is, determined to come up with a meaning. From it, I agree that the best definition would be a cat that absorbs and stores knowledge easily. That's the definition that makes the most sense to me. It fits with having it be used commonly with Medicine Cats and can be used for other cats with good memories.
|
|
bbun
Apprentice
%\1\%
Posts: 66
|
Post by bbun on Oct 15, 2012 18:08:10 GMT -6
Ah, so that's how Amberleaf, a GINGER she-cat with BROWN legs could'e gotten her suffix(along with Hollyleaf)
|
|
|
|
Post by Grey on Oct 15, 2012 19:53:10 GMT -6
But how well do cats understand the biology of plants? For them to think -leaf means a cat with leaf-like qualities, they would need a prior understanding of said qualities. Are you implying cats understand photosynthesis?
|
|
Mimi
New Member
%\1\%
Posts: 17
|
Post by Mimi on Oct 16, 2012 3:59:08 GMT -6
But how well do cats understand the biology of plants? For them to think -leaf means a cat with leaf-like qualities, they would need a prior understanding of said qualities. Are you implying cats understand photosynthesis? I more went with that they'd understand a leaf is used for storage (as in culturally). Other possible meanings or understandings are that a leaf is protective or strong. There isn't a whole lot of support for leaves heal either, given that most leaves don't and a large portion of usable "herbs" would be root or flower based in their area (or at least should*). Photosynthesis also isn't storage; that would be production, so it isn't a biological standpoint. * editing in to mention that the herbs and **** in the books don't really make any sense, but this would hold true if it did make any vague sense in its vague setting. |
|
|
|
Post by Grey on Oct 16, 2012 4:40:43 GMT -6
I'm very sorry but I don't think I understand your meaning.
Do you mean that the cats collect and store leaves as part of their medicine? Because that isn't what you've written here. I'm worried I am misinterpreting you, but it seems as though you're suggesting that leaves are somehow used as a form of storage by the cats, rather than as a thing that is stored. There's a key difference there.
I am uncertain what you mean. From my experience, no, they most definitely are not. Leaves are, arguably, the weakest part of most plants - leaves are injured by weather, easily torn or damaged, so on. I really wouldn't describe them as protective or strong, unless you're talking about the Giant Stinging Tree (which is endemic to Australia).
Well, there's canon.
Again, I can't quite understand your phrasing. This must just be a fault on my part.
There is a certain amount of suspension of belief. It goes without saying that cats do not have elaborate systems of medicinal craft - or even systems of healing in the first place. However, the Warriors series are written as anthropomorphic fantasy, and one of the basic world constructs includes the use of plants as having medicinal qualities.
Some of these plants have been credited to have certain effects on human health; some do not, and it is purely speculation. I doubt any of these 'medicines' work on cats, and I don't advise anyone testing them. Nevertheless, it is a key feature of Warriors to include these plants as having useful properties, so I am not sure about debating the realism of it. We all know it doesn't work. That's why it's labelled as fantasy.
As for instances of leaf usage in canon medical practice, there are approximately fourteen different remedies using leaves, which is a much higher amount than any other part of a plant (such as roots, berries or seeds). I could list them all, but that's unnecessary. The point is, a medicine cat's work is almost overwhelmingly about dealing with the leaves of various plants.
For this reason, I believe -leaf to be relevant to the craft of medicine, not because a leaf represents having a good memory.
Could you please rephrase? I understand that photosynthesis isn't a process of storage in and of itself, but I don't understand what you mean by this sentence.
You see, a plant absorbs sunlight and uses that energy to convert other compounds, such as sugar. Those are then stored as starch in the plant's cells. If you look at it that way, leaves play a key factor in the eventual storage of glucose. Of course, I don't expect this knowledge to be readily available to cats.
|
|
|
|
Post by BBoysExami on Feb 26, 2019 4:50:26 GMT -6
Backstreet Boys BSB are an American boy band. The band was founded on April 20, 1993 in Orlando, Florida, by Lou Pearlman. Now this is the most successful band with more than 130 million records sold worldwide. The group was named after a flea market in Orlando, the "backstreet flea market". In 2019 BB has more than 50 concerts in the US with their DNA US tour. Check all concerts at Backstreet Boys tour Edmonton page. Full list of tour dates & concerts! |
|
|
|
Post by nkotbExami on Mar 3, 2019 3:32:44 GMT -6
New Kids on the Block is my favourite pop-band of 90s. NKOTB had so many hit songs! The ones I remember are 'Tonight', 'Baby, I Believe In You' and, of course their hit 'Step By Step'. These are real songs, not fake like today! And it is sooo good NKOTB have a tour in 2019! And I'm going to visit their concert this year. The full list is here: New Kids on the Block concert list. Check it out and maybe we can even visit one of the concerts together! |
|
